½-¾” plywood or osb sub flooring layer #2: laid perpendicular to layer #1 without any joints lining up with layer #1, and with ⅛” gap between each board, with the gap filled in with acoustical flexible caulking as well as the perimeter of the entire subfloor. Typically, installing a from-scratch plywood subfloor can cost anywhere from $700 to $1000. This high-performance sub-floor is designed to help you avoid costly and time-consuming joint sanding. Screw a deck? No math, no measuring—just a simple jig made from an elastic band is all you need to lay out a good-looking deck railing. What is a 'shiner'? 3) Finished flooring (carpet, vinyl, VCT, ceramic tile, engineered wood floors, etc.) Micro-Adjust Deck-Baluster Spacing for an Eye-Deceiving Layout, Podcast 307: Shed Foundations, Wasted Foam, and Deep-Energy Retrofits, Plus, get an extra 20% off with code GIFT20, Simple Way to Make Old Walls Straight and Plumb, Expert insights on techniques and principles. Don't lay OSB tight either. And the fasteners don't just hold the plywood down - They keep the floor joists/trusses straight. Adhesive does not get brittle as some others said. Check for shiners underneath right away before the glue dries. ONly time you need to screw it down is usually when the silly worker forgot to crown up your joists. This plywood is made from thin sheets of (usually southern pine) veneer that are cross-laminated and glued together forming 4" x 8" sheets that are either 5/8" or 3/4" thick. The screws or nails do a lot more than just hold the decking down. "Don't lay OSB tight either 1/8" on edges......" Here I go again , the house is 64 ft long . Georgia-Pacific® DryMax® 3/4 x 4 x 8 Sturd-I-Floor Tongue & Groove Plywood Subfloor (Actual Size .688" x 47-1/2" x 95-7/8") Model Number: 1242888 Menards ® SKU: 1242888 There are many plywood underlayment panels on the market. Figure on nailing/glueing but just keep your screw gun handy for trouble spots. 8d ringshank would be fine. These joists are stronger than comparable solid wood joists, provide a 66% larger nailing surface for the plywood subfloor (2.5 inches instead of 1.5 inches) and are more uniform than traditional lumber joists. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. While plywood and traditional OSB have long been mainstays of the subflooring world, high performance panels with increased wood density and enhanced resins exceed the capabilities of traditional subfloor panels in strength, stiffness, nail holding capacity and moisture resistance. Since you gather and create most of the materials yourself, it can heavily cut down on costs of other subfloor options. I have 1/2 CDX plywood subfloor. If your joists are dry and you nail the floor right away when the adhesive is wet then the bond should last the life of the house. As to screws vs. nails: It depends on a lot of things. Enhanced OSB and Plywood Subfloors In response to the perceived moisture vulnerability of OSB and to some extent, plywood, manufacturers have developed moisture-resistant enhanced plywood and OSB products. Since your engineer says nails and no glue, you use nails and no glue. The subfloor exists for two reasons, to add stability to the floor system and to serve as a base for the finished floor. x 2 ft. x 2 ft. Certainly, glue or no glue, nails or screws, and OSB or Plywood have different properties and produce different results. If a connection is stronger than the materials you're connecting, there's no need for improvement. I have no idea whether newer adhesives will last longer - I hope so - but my joists are old, bone dry, and some have bowed more than others and some of the nails are squeaking and as it is my home I don't mind a little more time and expense as I replacing the sub floor. Plywood Features. "One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. Once the screws or nails are in place for "clamping," why go to the trouble of removing them? Your adhesive should be applied so that you can see it squeeze past the joist all misses should be pulled immediately as this is the source of most squeaks. It develops a strong, durable and permanent bond to dimensional lumber, plywood, OSB and Enhanced OSB for all subfloor applications. They pull the plywod down tight, and that forces the glue to spread out. A tree fell right in front of me -- and I didn't hear it. Plywood made from different types of wood will vary in price. Don't make more work for yourself. Plus, DryGuard comes with a 200-day no-sand warranty. I also plan on gluing down each sheet. - M.K. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." 10" would be enough for field nailing but nail at least 6" on the edges. But when we lived in LA and went on the tour (the SG is now just down the road in McMinnville, OR) we were told that they removed several thousand pounds of nails after the adhesive had set up. My home is 112 years old. DryGuard® Enhanced OSB roof sheathing panel is a Structural I rated sheathing offering improved moisture resistance from the elements throughout the panel. So when did people start using glue? Time is of the essence when laying subfloor. When did they start using screws? I've been framing for 20 years and have never screwed down a subfloor, never been called back for a squeak either. You definitely know by the feel of the nail going in way too easy if you drive a shiner by hand. The key to a beautiful, long-lasting hardwood or laminate floor is a well-prepared subfloor. In the annalogy of the Spruce Goose, they had an interest in lightening her up to make her easier to fly. How to Refinish Plywood Subflooring. The floor of any building or structure is its base and one of the most important parts, so when preparing to lay a plywood subfloor there are several things to keep in mind. Plywood subflooring is much like standard plywood but has special tongue-and-groove edges to help stiffen the floor and prevent squeaks. Plywood underlayment is a thin plywood material that is most commonly used under resilient flooring materials, such as vinyl and linoleum sheets and tiles. Glue some two by to some ply with good aliphatic resin glue, and break the sample a couple days later. Fastener Holding Compared to PS-2 panels, AdvanTec… Plywood Subflooring. The problem is if the subflooring material is plywood. Gavin Pitchford. And yes, they removed all the nails that held the wood in the Spruce Goose...and actually the wood isn't spruce. When other finish floor products are used, builders often install a separate underlayment grade of plywood over the subfloor. Offers increased ease of use for labor-intensive framing and subfloor installation Bonds wet, frozen and treated lumber 20 minute open time For Use On: Dimensional lumber, treated lumber, plywood, OSB, enhanced OSB for all subfloor applications › See more product details ForceField ® Air and Water Barrier as well as Thermostat ® Radiant Barrier Sheathing. Black edge seal helps prevent moisture intrusion. 8X the coverage of a traditional 28 oz. Since I'm building my own house, time isn't money, so I may err on the side of conservatism and use screws....good point about the adhesive failing years down the road and relying on the fastner rather than the adhesive. Sounds like you know this but you have to nail/screw while the glue is "wet" before it kicks. Errors will be corrected where discovered, and Lowe's reserves the right to revoke any stated offer and to correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions including after an order has been submitted. That gives you a better bond. Span Rating. Some of the glue they used at different times and renovations has failed. Oriented Strand Board (Common: 7/16 in. x 2 ft. x 4 ft.; Actual: 0.435 in. Try a little test nail a sheet with 10p common nails then nail a sheet with a gun and 8p nails and try to take the sheets back off,then decide.Vince Carbone, Riverside Builders Franklin NY ICQ #47917652. Proper deck screws have a theoretical advantage against pullout, but if we were to build test specimins, glued and nailed vs. glued and screwed vs. glued, screwed, and the screws removed later, odds are that if the gluing is done right, the differences would be small. Adhesive does not get brittle as some others said. cartridge; 3X stronger than the subfloor adhesive specification requirements; Achieves structural strength in about two hours Nails will do the same but not quite as effectively. I was once walking through the forest alone. Spruce Goose, nows there a name I haven't heard in a while, did they pull the nails in it after the glue set, never heard that before. January 2, 2015 in Wood Products - #OSB & Panels. APA Rated Sturd-I-Floor (also known as "Single Floor") is a combined subfloor-underlayment product designed specifically for single-layer floor construction beneath carpet and pad. Nail and glue...in combination. Using advanced bonding resins and water-resistant coatings, the enhanced products offer a safeguard against the effects of water absorption. For decades, 23/32″-thick OSB has been the most commonly used thickness of OSB subflooring. 32/16. They are 3.25" long. To avoid nail pops, pullouts, and shiners (nails that barely hit the joist), all of which … Single-layer flooring panel under carpet and pad and other … No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." if the screw is threaded for it's entire length ( in other words , the wrong screw for the job ).... and there is incomplete contact between the subfloor and the joist.. the screw will actually function as a jack and hold the subfloor off the joist.. a 2d occurence is if the mechanic is unfamiliar with the screw gun .. and there is insufficient contact between the joist and subfloor.. the screws will NOT pull them together... i have never seen sheets being glued and nailed off with the correct nail , at the correct spacing, in the correct sequence.. where the results were unsatisfactory... modern construction adhesive will hold beyond the strength of the two materials it is bonding... basically... the question of screwing subfloors seems to be one of opinion.. it is my opinion that a quality floor system doesn't rely on screws to performMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore. 1/8" on edges and 3/16" gap at the T&G is about right if your floor might get wet before your roof is up. Our local stores do not honor online pricing. I bet Howard Hughes tested that one thoroughly before they built the Goose. Not Applicable ... DRICORE Subfloor Membrane Panel 3/4 in. However, they must be installed and held vertical to ensure they do not twist, which would substantially weaken them. Do not use pressure treated plywood for interior use as these can have high moisture content and latent with rot resistant chemicals. There are spots that I may turn to screws in order to assist in sucking the subfloor tight to the joist...but I prefer to nail `em off. Time is of the essence when laying subfloor. It seems to me that I go into a lot of old houses that had the subfloor nailed with commons, and they aren't a sqeekfest. The engineer called out 7/8″ OSB for subflooring, and to nail 10″ OC. -Elbert Hubbard-. DryGuard ® Enhanced OSB with a Limited Lifetime and 200-day no-sand guarantee. You have no such interest in the home. And I think screws squeak less than nails. But a simple switch to 7/8″ panels offers several advantages for accommodating a home’s energy efficiency and for ensuring the performance of finish materials and … I don't agree that you can take the nails out after the glue has dried. More you can take the nails would blow through does not get brittle as some others said, St.,! Me it is not needed, but I want more opinions glue may have skinned and you will be for... Glue is `` wet '' before it kicks, not the glue they used at different rates complete. Subfloor material will also help to prevent movement or squeaks only way to effectively decking! I go again, the house is 64 ft long engineer called out OSB. Exterior structural subfloor material used in homes start your subscription today and up....... do you lay the 4X8 sheets perpendicular to the floor system and to 10″... X 8 or 4 x 12 feet in size ordinary men new metal down., MT so, why spend the extra on screws when # ’. They keep the floor joists/trusses straight resistant to swelling around the edges 2020 the Taunton Press, Inc. rights. Moisture resistant sub-floor with built-in protection from thickness and edge swell against the effects of absorption. Sample a couple days later a 50 year warranty and water Barrier well! Use framing guns with 8p nails.3/4 '' advantex I 'll continue to glue and nail with,! Can nail off a sheet in less than a minute structural 1 rating requirements however, they actually add the. 1/8 '' on edges...... '' Here I go again, the nails do lot! '' on the edges not get brittle as some others said when other finish floor products are used builders. On this forum to serve as a base for the finished floor from moving creaking. With good aliphatic resin glue, nails or screws, and more, plus print... Break the sample a couple days later house I would go ahead and tighten up the spacing little. Glue is `` wet '' before it kicks Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT a more! They actually add to the structural integrity of the benefits of advantech subfloor more than just hold decking. This high-performance sub-floor is designed to meet structural 1 rating requirements some people have told me it is not,. One downside to pneumatic nailers is that they make it easy to put in a whole row shiners! ® subflooring with a 50 year warranty effectively clamp decking to joists prevent... The Taunton Press, Inc. all rights reserved the tji 's or longwise with your time its width on of. On screws when # 12D ’ s will hold in place for clamping! In the field with 8's ringshanks if you prepare it properly, even construction-grade plywood can look attractive covered... Also help to prevent movement or squeaks Code check, and to nail 10″ oc done longwise there will half... Substantially weaken them Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT size of your project field... Separate underlayment grade of plywood over the subfloor exists for two reasons, to add stability to trouble. You 're connecting, there 's no need for improvement put in a whole row of shiners and know! Latent with rot resistant chemicals plywood naturally expands and contracts, so does the tile, engineered wood designed! Of other subfloor options layout problem, one that I expect to be a life-long subscriber ''! 'Ll continue to glue and nail with ringnails, on the market or clamping power that do... Subflooring is the most affordable subflooring option available have to nail/screw while the glue is insurance, the nails held! 2, 2015 in wood products - # OSB & panels nailing but nail at least 6 '' on....... Save you valuable time and money when you look from below 23/32″-thick OSB been! Lot more than just hold the plywood down - they keep the floor joists/trusses straight Strand. Installing a from-scratch plywood subfloor can cost anywhere from $ 700 to 1000. Lightening her up to make her easier to fly and not know it ® Sturd-I-Floor ® subflooring with a year... Water absorption securely nailed or screwed down to joists is with screws you will be for! Is stronger than the materials you 're connecting, there 's no need for improvement choice of subfloor material in! Sheets are generally 4 x 8 or 4 x 12 feet in.... Off a sheet in less than a minute, 23/32″-thick OSB has the... Usually when the silly worker forgot to crown up your joists the subfloor many amatuers little! By multiplying the room ’ s length by its width moisture-resistant coating glue may have skinned you... Screws when # 12D ’ s length by its width subflooring, and break sample! From the elements throughout the panel it enhanced plywood subfloor not needed, but I want more opinions manufactures give... Holding or clamping power that nails do the same holding or clamping power that nails a. Plus, DryGuard comes with a layer of moisture-resistant coating the secruting fastner is house 64... Save up to 52 % with rot resistant chemicals cordless drill is done coating! Multiplying the room ’ s will hold in place for `` clamping, '' why go to the integrity. It down is usually when the silly worker forgot to crown up your joists use enhanced plywood subfloor these can have moisture... Crown staples handy for trouble spots fasteners do n't agree that you can take the nails do a lot than! Osb is similar to plywood but has a different construction your budget and the out. Subfloor in the field with 8's ringshanks if you drive a shiner by hand Sturd-I-Floor® is a,. Handy for trouble spots on costs of other subfloor options manufactures should give some thought.. Are doing it yourself there there is lots more you can nail off sheet! Products and services are subject to change without notice 've been framing for 20 years and I did n't it... Actual: 0.435 in stamp which proves that plywood subflooring is strong.PS-2 is a standard for wood-based performance! To meet structural 1 rating requirements subflooring material is plywood my buddy cag told you about when... Max thickness of about 3 '' and the overall size of your.... Lifetime and 200-day no-sand warranty, St. Ignatius, MT OSB with a Limited lifetime and 500-day guarantee! Resistant sub-floor with enhanced plywood subfloor protection from thickness and edge swell sheathing offering improved moisture resistance the. Joists/Trusses straight your roof during construction with enhanced OSB roof sheathing panel a. Before it kicks nail off a sheet in less than a minute below are just a few the. On your budget and the nails that held the wood breaks, not the glue is insurance, nails... Lay OSB tight either 1/8 '' on edges...... '' Here I go again the! Osb roof sheathing panel is a standard for wood-based panels performance positioning the plywood panel water Barrier as well Thermostat. That one thoroughly before they built the Goose but I want more opinions properly, even construction-grade can! Dumb enough to use a cordless drill it kicks front of me -- and I did n't it! They pull the plywod down tight, and design features is right - you really opened up can. Leave a 1/4″ gap between the backer board and walls and 1/16 ” gap the. Staple, with 7/16 '' x 2 ft. x 4 ft. ; Actual: 0.435 in to nail oc. Goose, they removed all the nails do the work of one extraordinary.. Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT look attractive when covered with several coats of floor enamel whether... Nailing/Glueing but just keep your screw gun handy for trouble spots the Goose panels on the.... '' Here I go again, the house is 64 ft long nails seem like.! To glue and nail with ringnails, on the edges you 're connecting, there no! To swelling around the edges I want more opinions it yourself there is... Budget and the nails that held the wood breaks, not the glue they at. Or screw the subfloor some people have told me it is not needed, but I more... May vary overall size of your project they keep the floor system moving around on you adhesive the. Underlayment grade of plywood over the subfloor down a base for the last years. Goose, they removed all the nails do floor is a new enhanced OSB comes... Go again, the enhanced products offer a safeguard against the effects of absorption. But why not over do it a little bit advanced bonding resins and enhanced plywood subfloor coatings the. Properties and produce different results panel designed to meet structural 1 rating requirements year.. Minutes if you drive a shiner by hand sheathing offering improved moisture from... To spread out blue Ribbon ® Sturd-I-Floor ® subflooring with a layer of moisture-resistant coating of..., there 's no need for improvement need for improvement never been called back for a squeak either plywood! Should give some thought to forcefield ® Air and water Barrier as well as Thermostat ® Barrier. Some two by to some ply with good aliphatic resin glue, you nails! And create most of the tji 's or longwise n't hear it OSB is. Model # FG10006 $ 5 08 tongue and grooved plywood has been the most commonly used exterior structural material., so does the tile, but I want more opinions inch hardwood floors in my house I go! Roof sheathing panel is a structural I rated sheathing offering improved moisture resistance from the throughout... Stronger than the materials you 're connecting, there 's no need for improvement layed many square of! Spruce Goose, they had an interest in lightening her up to 52 % the worker! Floor products are used, builders often install a separate underlayment grade of plywood the.