If I do a finish concrete floor, how would I seal the finish concrete slab around the perimeter? This isolates and maximizes the reduction of impact sound and vibration caused by foot fall noise. When installing this layer of foam, it's important to make the installation as airtight as possible, to make it impossible for any humid interior air to contact the concrete. I was concerned with both hardwood underlayments and tile would have very low permeability, lower than the XPS anyway, and so trap vapor in the plywood. My house is a 4 level split, built in 1993. It will certainly do no harm, and costs very little, so you might as well install it. Some basement floor coverings such as vinyl or ceramic tile can be installed straight on concrete. The project is climate zone 7 but for the most part it's very dry and we are installing a full perimeter foundation drain. Or am I missing a significant distinction between drying and vapor transmission? Basement workshop (If you aren't sure whether your slab has insulation underneath, you can drill a hole through the concrete to inspect what's under there. Thanks so much for your help, much appreciated! If your basement slab lacks sub-slab insulation, youâll need to install some rigid foam above your slab -- especially if you decide to install carpeting. Thank you, Mr Holladay for your quick response. "Can you suggest how to go about installing bamboo or other engineered wood flooring?". I appreciate the wealth of information on this site and hope to be closing in on all of the corrections. I will try to do some testing to better understand the moisture levels within the basement slab concrete. For more information on insulating existing basement slabs, see: this site is wonderful and I really enjoy reading all your tips! This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. I have never installed any type of finish flooring directly over foam, so I'm not sure of the answer. My questions are: Will this work? The same job is also profiled in this article: The Stay-Dry, No-Mold Finished Basement. Yes, it will negate some of your efforts -- because it will act as a thermal bridge allowing heat to bypass the insulation on the rest of the floor. Thanks for your very informative site, you make our lives easier by not having to redo what we thought was the right thing to do. Vinyl flooring on top of the subfloor creates a potential moisture trap, with the moisture susceptible subflooring between the sub-slab poly and the extremely low permeance vinyl. Gary, Frame basement wall 1” off wall with a … "I am assuming that tile cannot be laid over this flooring.". This allows the concrete to breathe while keeping the floor dry. heavy-duty traffic, Damaged tiles are Even Type I EPS (rigid foam with a density of 0.9 pounds per cubic foot and a compressive strength of 13.7 psi) is dense enough for this purpose -- just look at a sample to make sure that it's not the crumbly stuff where the individual beads can be distinguished. “We want to do the kitchen and bathroom in tile or stone and the rest of the area in wall-to-wall carpet,” he writes in a Q&A post at Green Building Advisor. DELTA®-MS is a dimpled membrane that uses our exclusive Air-gap Technology to ensure your basements stay dry and last longer. The Green Roof is open to the public via the fifth-floor cafeteria and serves as an outdoor patio for both employees and visitors alike. Flooring options follow up This won't delete the articles you've saved, just the list. Heating mats and radiant heating are among your heating options. (4) If you did use DMX airflow or something similar, would it be ok to use a vinyl floating floor/would the expansion gaps around the product allow enough moisture to be removed by the dehumidifier? The osb would just float on top of the floor. Suspend a 250-375 watt heat lamp 2' above the plastic film. The walls are also covered in reclaimed 2.5" XPS foamed and taped. John, The soil under your basement slab will always be damp. If you intend to finish your basement, and your basement slab lacks sub-slab insulation, youâll need to install some rigid foam above your slab. The first is apparently not a problem here. My house has excellent drainage due to its location and the surrounding landscaping. I will certainly follow the install guidelines for the products I choose. Laundry room has newer tile and feels cold. When installed in this fashion, they are hard and cold and are meant for utilitarian basements devoted to storage or for a quick game of billiards. Q. Now I am starting to think I have misunderstood something. I have a vacation home in the mountains in Alaska. Moisture in Concrete and Moisture-sensitive Finishes and Coatings. The finished floor is isolated from the cold concrete … I wanted to use bamboo flooring in the main areas of the basement, but I wondered whether underlayment options for bamboo would interfere with the drying principles of this system. Daniel, Even the newer poured epoxy floors will form large and unsightly bubbles if the slab is ever exposed to moisture. If you install rigid foam on top of a slab, you don't want to encourage any moisture flow upward. "The only thing that I'm trying to wrap my head around is the possibility that the bare concrete floor is negating some of our efforts to super insulate and air seal the house.". I was hoping to glue the tongue and groove sheets seams together and use a pc of heavy weight sheet metal as a butt joint backer. I already have one wall framed up next to the staircase because it’s load bearing. For $5.25 CAD a square foot you can get an engineered wood floating floor that goes over a plastic sheet and the foam pad which sit … A. I think I will then go with poly + rigid foam + cement board in the bathroom and finish with tile. There has to be some perks when you are a tyrant. "B. Calcium Chloride Test Can you help me to understand that better? Cheaper? Here is a brief description of the usual testing procedure for hardwood flooring: "A. Dimple Flooring as a BEE compliant company that has been producing top quality flooring since 2001. If you keep the basement humidity levels in check, you should be fine. Four Cats, Seal the edges of each piece of foam insulation with a high-quality European tape, with caulk, or with canned spray foam. I have just over 8' of vertical clearance from the concrete to the floor joists above. I have a house built in 1920, cold climate (just north of NYC). If polyethylene was installed under your slab, you are all set. “In general,” Holladay adds, “you don’t ever want to install carpeting on a concrete slab unless you are sure that there is a layer of horizontal rigid foam under the slab. Or that the system is not designed to encourage or facilitate upward drying? My home was built in 1926, and I've been battling poor repair jobs since I bought it. But the effect isn't worth losing sleep over, in my opinion. Tape a 2' x 2' square of 6 mil clear polyethylene film flat to the slab, sealing all edges with moisture resistant tape. Thanks for any advice or input. So I have a preference for removable and/or moisture proof materials. For new construction in the northeast, a homeowner considers XPS, EPS, and spray polyurethane foam, Dimple mats help reduce hydrostatic pressure near basement walls, A builder in Idaho works out the details for adding foam insulation to both sides of his basement walls. I have a walkout level that is on a concrete slab. “Are there other options beside inorganic individual tiles? Insulated floors – The dimples provide a thermal break and foam layer enhances thermal insulation, creating a warm and comfortable floor Superseal, Delta-MS, etc.) When you put even R4 between a slab in a sub-45F subsoil area the susceptible subfloor & flooring will be much closer to the room temp than the subsoil temp, and that problem goes away. With an insulated basement subfloor, you’re adding panels to stop that conduction by creating a layer between the concrete and your floors. It was poured June of 2015... Perhaps I phrased my questions poorly. Is there any flooring product that can go directly over the rigid foam insulation on the floor? Overflowing toilets, pipe leaks, etc. So you should direct your question to the technical department of the flooring manufacturer. Thank You! Location is Madison, WI. I have a recently poured 4 inch basement slab with a sheet of poly underneath. What are the thoughts on a basement concrete floor finished in epoxy? or less. I believe that my problem is 2-fold in that I get vapor coming up through the slab causing the humid condition and condensation on the slab because it is colder than the rest of the room. I was trying to understand from your perspective what I needed to do to adequately prep the slab for 1) tile and 2) vinyl flooring or some sort of click lock engineered flooring so I don't have to worry about moisture coming up from below or condensation due to the change in temp from the slab to the ambient room temp. The floors are unfinished poured cement with no insulation. Tile is good for areas that might get wet, but it's hard and cold underfoot. If this is an older home, and you are worried that there may be no poly under the slab, then adding a layer of poly between the slab and the rigid foam is cheap and potentially helpful. Its dimpled, rugged gray plastic membrane provides a seamless mold and moisture barrier for any concrete, slab-on-grade floor in your home. I didn't say it would be ideal :-) Possibly a trip hazard unless laid out carefully. 10mm or more laminate can be installed over this , offer at HD, but needs to be special order. If I am understanding correctly, you are suggesting tile directly on top of the concrete slab (once I've confirmed the moisture level and found it to be within range) for an area like the bathroom and for a living space, I should use the EPS + Plywood with some sort of vapor-permeable finish floor (carpet) or wood/bamboo? Dieterle has never had a bulk water problem in the basement in the 17 years he’s lived in the house. Response to Daniel Hatch does the OSB layer need to be fastened to the concrete or can it float on top? Response to Greg Volland How about in a utility room with a floor drain? Do the same requirements apply in terms of moisture passing through the slab if I was to install the EPS + plywood you mentioned earlier in the thread (and finish with carpet or vinyl flooring)? If you go this route, you can hire a tile contractor to install ceramic tile and a floor drain. SUPERSEAL dimple membrane is packaged in various roll sizes to fit your needs. I have noticed some condensation under plastic bins, etc. But foam insulation is a better choice. I've always understood it to be the later. Martin, I'm planning to use the floor assembly that you describe over an existing slab (floor leveler, delta dimple mat, 1 inch xps foam, subfloor, floating wooden floor) but I don't know what to do in the the utility room that has an Very interesting information! Basement Build-Out Flooring Prep Stud wall with gypsum to protect wall XPS installed on top of floor foam and OSB. I have a full basement that has neither foam insulation or vapor barrier under the slab. A. I'm not sure what you mean by "normally," but if you have a bathroom in your basement, and if you want to install rigid foam above the slab and on the interior of your concrete walls, the way you describe is the best way to proceed. Even when the floor is carefully prepared per the manufacturer's specifications, it seems impossible to get a good bond everywhere. BTW, a few tiling contractors thought that the XPS would not be rigid enough over time to prevent flexing, which was another concern, but I am very happy to hear that you think I could lay tile over this. If the foam board joints are foamed and taped prior to glued 3/4" tongue and groove osb installation, Q.) For purposes, of these various studies, the mature concrete was either fully capillary saturated or saturated to 95 percent. Q. Fred, I've been reading through these very informative comments but none fully addresses our situation. It's ok, but soft--after five years, the finish under my rolling office chair is flaking off, and there are lots of dents. Otherwise, the slab or the flooring will be damp during the summer (due to condensation on the cool slab). Carpet is warm and soft but susceptible to moisture damage. But that would seem unusual to me. Why 2 Layers of Plywood Two layers of plywood or OSB, installed with staggered seams, screwed to each other (but not screwed to the concrete). Most green builders try to avoid using XPS because XPS is manufactured with a blowing agent that has a high global warming potential. I have a 7yr old house at West Chester, PA, with concrete slab in my unfinished walk-out basement. I have been wanting to ask you these questions for a long time. (Note that some similar products, notably DRIcore, have mixed reviews from some builders. 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